This is a partial transcript from “Hannity & Colmes”, April 1, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.
SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: It’s one of the few things that affects just everybody. And that’s gas prices. And lately, they’ve been going up, way up.
Not surprisingly, Democrats and Republicans are blaming each other. So which side can turn things around at the pumps?
Joining us from Los Angeles, Fox News political analyst and former campaign manager for Michael “The Tank” Dukakis, Susan Estrich is with us. And joining us from Washington, Republican strategist Kellyanne Conway is with us.
All right. Welcome, both of you. All right.
Whatever the price is, here’s a quote from John Kerry in 1994. You’ve heard it, Susan. He says, quote, “This doesn’t reflect my $43 billion package in cuts and my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax.”
Those are his words. Should that be relevant in this campaign?
SUSAN ESTRICH, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: What year was that?
HANNITY: 1994.
ESTRICH: God, Sean, were you alive? Were you even alive?
KELLYANNE CONWAY, THE POLLING COMPANY: Were you still doing it Susan? Actually, he’s raised it now to account for inflation.
HANNITY: Let me add to this. He voted in his Senate career to raise taxes on gas, Susan, 11 times. Recently he voted twice for the Clinton- Gore BTU tax, gas prices, that would raise it 7.5 cents a gallon.
He voted for in the former administration he voted for it. He voted against repealing it five times. I mean, this is consistently a guy that votes to raise gas taxes. Who is he to lecture anybody about the price of it?
ESTRICH: Well, because I went to his Web site tonight, just to make sure I’d be up to date.
HANNITY: Talking points?
ESTRICH: And I had my kids reading it with me. And there wasn’t a single mention of increased gas taxes.
CONWAY: That’s a shocker. That’s a shock.
HANNITY: Wow, that tells us a lot.
CONWAY: Do you think he is going to admit that he wants to raise taxes or that, as lieutenant governor, under none other than Michael Dukakis he did? Or he can start — Sure.
HANNITY: Kellyanne, finish your thought. What?
CONWAY: My thought really is very simple. This comes from a man who does not drive himself anywhere.
I mean, these are Democratic hypocrites who just tool around in hummers and driven sedan car services and don’t appreciate what it is to pump their own gas.
John Kerry’s tax hikes and as he now proposes now, all of a sudden, in Kerry fashion, he, drum roll please, he’s changed his mind, and he supports the Kyoto treaty. This would cost the average family $657 more a year just in gas. And he doesn’t know that because he’s not the average family.
HANNITY: Susan?
ESTRICH: Well, first of all, I don’t know the last time George W. Bush pumped his gas, and I’ve known John Kerry for a long time.
CONWAY: He…
ESTRICH: Well, honey, can you just let me finish a sentence? If you want to talk it’s OK.
But anyway, you can’t win this election, Sean, by just doing the record of 15 years ago. I think ultimately this is going to come down to people trust with their future. And I don’t think it’s going to be won by looking at the past.
Now, gas prices are very high now. And I think when the charges are done…
HANNITY: Let me ask you this.
ESTRICH: That — wait, the question is going to be tied to Iraq. It’s going to be tied to our dependency on foreign oil.
HANNITY: Here’s my question.
ESTRICH: It’s going to be tied to those things you discussed yesterday and who we’re fighting for and on those issues I think John Kerry is going to win.
HANNITY: All right. Fair enough. I think it run on what is Kerry going to do differently in the War on Terror.
ESTRICH: Right.
HANNITY: Hang on. And I think his answer there is to go to the U.N.
I think on the issue of taxes, you’re basically saying that when the American people have all of his votes laid out that he supported a 50-cent per gallon gas tax and voted to raise taxes 11 times…
ESTRICH: I am saying is when they look at what he is proposing and when they look at what Bush is proposing, they’re going to see that the tax burden is going to fall differently.
The middle class is probably going to pay less, and wealthy people are going to pay more.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Let me go to Kellyanne.
ESTRICH: The priorities will be different. And that’s the issue.
COLMES: Kellyanne, let me go to you.
First of all, I don’t think it helps the debate to call people hypocrites and call people names. I want to get the facts out on the table. I think name-calling — you know, you accuse Democrats of Bush bash and you want to sit here and call John Kerry a hypocrite. I just think that’s not the way to have a good debate.
CONWAY: Alan, somebody changes their mind on an issue is a hypocrite. For example, you are not a hypocrite.
COLMES: That’s very kind of you.
CONWAY: You’re a very proud liberal. No, it’s true, though. It’s not an April Fool’s joke. John Kerry is…
COLMES: I hope I can believe you.
CONWAY: Yes, but darling, he’s someone who runs away from this liberal record he has, and he should be proud of it.
COLMES: George W. Bush, there’s been $24 billion that Americans have had to pay in extra gas money because — since George W. Bush has been president.
Why not urge OPEC to increase its production? That’s what George W. Bush said he would do during the campaign, and then now they’re saying we’re not going to go begging to these countries. Why not take proactive steps to help do the right thing to bring prices down?
CONWAY: Well, Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham testified, actually, today in Congress and he was asked questions like this. And he did reveal certain things that he could, to the extent that he can reveal confidences between the president of the United States and OPEC members.
But you know what? The Republicans, including George W. Bush and a few Democrats, have an even better idea, to make the United States of America more dependent on the United States of America for its renewable energy sources.
All we need to do is do a little pinpoint drilling in ANWAR in Alaska.
COLMES: That’s not going to solve the problem. Let’s go to Susan.
CONWAY: … more dependent on…
ESTRICH: That’s the answer. We don’t have to…
COLMES: Hold on.
CONWAY: The Democrats say you’ll disturb the sleep patterns of the cockatiels or the animals there.
COLMES: They are focused on ANWAR as if that’s going to solve our problems. Our problems have to be solved in a more holistic way for years to come. ANWAR is not the answer.
We make oil in Alaska that we export to Japan. We could keep that domestically. That’s not the answer.
ESTRICH: I want to say three things real quickly. First of all, Kellyanne, you know, you say you don’t name call and then you start with John Kerry doesn’t pump his own gas. He’s not a real person, that’s…
CONWAY: How is that name-calling?
ESTRICH: Stop.
CONWAY: Can we have a little review of what name-calling is?
COLMES: Let Susan answer, please. Susan?
ESTRICH: Two, conservation has obviously got to be a part of any policy.
And, three, pinpoint drilling is not going to be a total answer to our problems.
CONWAY: Look, it’s very simple. The distinction between these two guys on gasses and taxes is very simple. Kerry thinks that we should all be hugging trees. Bush thinks we should hugging our wallets. I think that hugging the wallet idea will prevail.
HANNITY: I think we should have pinpoint drilling, just for the record. And I do not care about the mating habits of the porcupine caribou, period.
CONWAY: My ax is ready.
HANNITY: All right. Thank you, guys. Appreciate you being with us.
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